Overrun attack

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:36 pm

Do people think this should be in the game?

Overrun attack was in PG2 but I can’t remember if it was found elsewhere. Only tanks could do it but tanks could do it to all other units (including other tanks) – basically if the defending unit was weak enough the tank would overrun it and get the opportunity to attack again and, in some cases, move a short distance as well. If you played it right you could weaken a string of units and pluck a few of them off with a single strong tank unit almost like it was conducting a crushing blitzkrieg.

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:43 pm

Overrun attack was in PG2 but I can’t remember if it was found elsewhere.

IIRC it was renamed to Blitz in PG-III. Or was that, blitz gave the extra movement points, been so many years now.

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:49 pm

I can't believe no one else has replied yet. Probably too many rookies in the beta.

In any case...

Special ability of recon is phased movement, special ability of artillery is long-lasting suppression, and special ability of tanks currently is... ?

Rudankort · Post by **Rudankort** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:57 pm

Obsolete wrote:I can't believe no one else has replied yet. Probably too many rookies in the beta.

I guess, this shows how "important" this feature is.

Obsolete wrote: Special ability of recon is phased movement, special ability of artillery is long-lasting suppression, and special ability of tanks currently is... ?

I would be happy to express arty in terms of standard unit stats, but I don't see a way to do that. Hence lasting suppression. But tank is already one of the most useful units in the game. I'm sure nobody will play without Panthers and Tigers in his core. So, they don't really need any special abilities. Keep it simple if you can.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:12 pm

Perhaps as a compromise, perhaps a limit 1 overrun attack per unit per turn?
So instead of your Tiger smashing every weakened unit in sight until it runs out of ammunition, each Tiger can only overrun once per player turn.

Tanks are already very strong and useful as Rudankort pointed out, but perhaps a small 'specialty bonus' isn't out of the question either.

Orchrist · Post by **Orchrist** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:19 pm

iainmcneil wrote:Do people think this should be in the game?

Overrun attack was in PG2 but I can’t remember if it was found elsewhere. Only tanks could do it but tanks could do it to all other units (including other tanks) – basically if the defending unit was weak enough the tank would overrun it and get the opportunity to attack again and, in some cases, move a short distance as well. If you played it right you could weaken a string of units and pluck a few of them off with a single strong tank unit almost like it was conducting a crushing blitzkrieg.

I like the idea, however I would make it a once per turn/per unit only possibility, and I would make it somewhat rare. Obviously with the technology upgrades that both sides saw, there were times when new units were introduced, (such as T-34s, Panthers, Tigers KV's etc), and they caught the opposition off balance and ran rampant before the other side could come up with tactics and equipment to counter them. That being said, maybe the newer equipment, based on the historical timelines, would have a higher probability of 'procing' the 'Overrun' or 'Blitz". Just a few thoughts!

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:25 pm

Sorry...

This is a bad feature using the current supply model.

If a player breaks through, the game is pretty much over as all the units in the rear can not resupply.

But since we are able to have a function, let me think about tanks.

For infantry:
a cocktail button.
Conscript +1 suppression
regular +1 suppression
heavy infantry +1 suppression
Engineer +1 hard attack
Paratrooper +1 suppression.

Why? And how can you use it?

Seldom but when you try to assault those hard to kill tanks.

Hit them with a couple of infantry cocktails for suppression, now your weak tank may be able to make a hit or prevent it getting hit less.

EDIT: for tanks, SMOKE at two hexes. Prevents artillery from firing

Obsolete · Post by **Obsolete** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:34 pm

Keep it simple if you can.

Well, I don't think PG fans want a dubbed-down version.

If we have a lot of tank leaders, we could perhaps only allow blitz for tank aces?

I have yet to see what we can expect from these leaders.

Rudankort · Post by **Rudankort** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Obsolete wrote: Well, I don't think PG fans want a dubbed-down version.

Well, I have no intention to duplicate all features ever featured in PG series only because some people liked them. I guess, any feature can find its fan. But my personal impression of PG2 is that instead of balancing basic game elements they stuffed the game with fancy things which only detracted from game balance. Besides, it had a different scale.

OmegaMan1 · Post by **OmegaMan1** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:06 am

If my memory serves me correctly, the overrun feature was in both PG2 and PG3. It's not a feature that I'm eager to see in PC... but if it is included, I agree with the posters above who say it should be a rare event (I like the idea of attaching it to a hero/general), and only possible against units at "1" strength.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:00 am

If its not a core feature I think we are better off without it. I'm not keen on special case rare events. Either the mechanism is a core part of the system or its not so it feels like this is one we should avoid.

shawnt63 · Post by **shawnt63** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:44 pm

Sorry work has been an over load - I like the idea of an overrun or blitz for tank units.

boredatwork · Post by **boredatwork** » Sun May 01, 2011 2:37 am

I wouldn't want overrun. It felt cheap in PG2 that your tank could go back and forth and kill 2 or 3 enemy units in a single turn.

It felt even cheaper in the Novgorod scenario when the T-34 or KV-1 would 1 shot your 9str infantry.

tnourie · Post by **tnourie** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:52 am

I like the overrun, but unlike in Peoples General, the tank should only be able to overrun units of 2 or less strength, and only once per unit turn (with a normal attack still available (or normal movement, if unmoved)

From my gaming experience and history observations, overruns were used as a normal part of tank tactics. I see no reason not to include them in a tank based game!

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:54 am

The problem is you rarely get a strength level of 2 as the randome damage consistently kills units 3 or less.

tnourie · Post by **tnourie** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:59 am

Razz1 wrote:The problem is you rarely get a strength level of 2 as the randome damage consistently kills units 3 or less.

They have that much strength after prepratory shelling\bombing and maybe an infantry attack. The unit would then be fodder for an armor units advancement after combat upon destroying the resulting low strength unit.

frighteningfred · Post by **frighteningfred** » Wed May 25, 2011 12:22 am

I like the overrun ability. It was a nice game changer

Dragoon24 · Post by **Dragoon24** » Wed May 25, 2011 1:45 am

I don't think overrun is applicable in PzC because of the variable unit size. If the units were always only company size then it's possible to completely rout them, however when you are talking about Regiments and Divisions it is impossible to break them completely there will always be a reminder of the unit that will continue to fight and delay any advancing force.

So I am against overrun.

tnourie · Post by **tnourie** » Wed May 25, 2011 3:32 am

Put it to a vote?? I'll start a poll in the main forum for a popular vote.

pupski · Post by **pupski** » Wed May 25, 2011 7:02 am

I read this discussion about overrun and I think that it could be nice if you could make one more attack with an attacking tank. But it can throw gameplay of balance I guess. More important I think is the possibility for a tank to 'take ground'. Now a tank a lot of times moves one hex to a city hex, finishes of a weak defending unit and just stands there. It is very reasonable that after destroying the unit it can take the hex. I even think this is one of the main concepts of tank use, taking ground. With all the maneuverability of tanks it's is almost strange/silly that near cities it takes an extra turn to capture it while the tank made only a one hex move.

Overrun attack

Overrun attack

Re: Overrun attack

Overrun

Overrun Poll