Title for Rules

General discussion forum for anything related to Field of Glory Ancients & Medieval.

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ars_belli
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Post by ars_belli »

hammy wrote:
ars_belli wrote:Or there is also the possibilty of this simple adjustment:

Ancient Art of War (AAoW)
3000 BC - AD 1500

Cheers,
Scott K.
Unfortunatley there is already computer game by that name :( Which could I think be a problem.
ars_belli wrote:I agree that this would be a problem. But then, there is already an ancient/medieval miniatures rule set entitled Art of War. :(


To amend my earlier response, there is actually less of a 'problem' with the title Ancient Art of War, because one product is a computer game and the other is a set of miniatures rules. There is actually more of a 'problem' when two of the same type of product from different publishers each have the same title.

I promise not to flog this horse any more. :wink:

Cheers,
Scott K.
nikgaukroger
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Post by nikgaukroger »

Better Than Life

with apologies to Messrs Grant and Naylor :D
vtsaogames
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Post by vtsaogames »

The problem is that you have grown used to calling this rule set 'the art of war' but have since discovered that in addition to the book by Sun Tzu, another by Nicky Machiavelli and a rather poor movie starring Wesley Snipes, a couple of guys have previously published a set of rules for the same period with the same title. So all sorts of folks, including me, have been suggesting alternate names here, some serious, some decidedly not.

A modest proposal then, for a modest name change, to 'The Art of Ancient & Medieval War'.
I've googled it in quotes and got no hits, did it again with the word rules outside the quotes and got no hits. It's close enough to retain recognition and yet gets off the toes of the existing rule set, at least in my opinion. I invite those with better Google skills to try this out.

It can be gussied up in faux old english as "Ye Art of Ancient and Medieval Warre" should that float your boat and leaves the gate open for a later 'the Art of Renaissance War" which I would really like to see.
nikgaukroger
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Post by nikgaukroger »

vtsaogames wrote: The problem is that you have grown used to calling this rule set 'the art of war' but have since discovered that in addition to the book by Sun Tzu, another by Nicky Machiavelli and a rather poor movie starring Wesley Snipes, a couple of guys have previously published a set of rules for the same period with the same title.
Mind you how many people have heard of the latter compared to the Osprey/Slitherine set?

I suspect that there would be more confusion with the WAB supplement.
warfareeast
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Post by warfareeast »

Commanders of Battle
In the Front Line
Battle Command

Cheers
Matt
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Post by nikgaukroger »

To Arms!

(Mind you that starts a line in a Zappa song that goes -"To arms, to arms, two legs ain't bad, unless there's a crate they ship them home to momma in!")
vtsaogames
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Post by vtsaogames »

nikgaukroger wrote:
vtsaogames wrote: The problem is that you have grown used to calling this rule set 'the art of war' but have since discovered that in addition to the book by Sun Tzu, another by Nicky Machiavelli and a rather poor movie starring Wesley Snipes, a couple of guys have previously published a set of rules for the same period with the same title.
Mind you how many people have heard of the latter compared to the Osprey/Slitherine set?
More than you would think since both of the authors are frequent posters on TMP and one pushes the rules. I've not been tempted to buy their rules (for a change) but certainly had heard of them and visited the web site since they have lots of pretty pictures. I only recently disovered the Osprey/Slitherine rules through a thread on TMP. In any case, are the numbers of people who know one or the other germane to this?
ars_belli
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Post by ars_belli »

vtsaogames wrote:A modest proposal then, for a modest name change, to 'The Art of Ancient & Medieval War'.
Actually, I rather like this one! :D

Cheers,
Scott K.
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Post by clivevaughan »

The only problem with Art of War is that it sounds as if it's a companion to Principles of War.
How about Battle Commander (or Battlefield Commander)? (The initials cover two thirds of our period!!)
philqw78
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Post by philqw78 »

Or even Ancient Battle Commander - ABC
ars_belli
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Post by ars_belli »

philqw78 wrote:Or even Ancient Battle Commander - ABC
Hmmm... I like this one even better! :D

Cheers,
Scott K.
philqw78
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Post by philqw78 »

10% inspiration, 10% perspiration and 80% plagiarism of the post before :)
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Post by philqw78 »

And the campaign rules get the same pneumonic - Ancient Battle Campaigns- ABC
neilhammond
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Post by neilhammond »

If you wanted to bring in younger people, then go for:

Really Cool Wargame Rules

or for the beer drinkers:

Probably the Best Wargames Rules in the World
lentulus
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Post by lentulus »

Just a thought, from the point of vew of someone looking at the spine on your typical Osprey rack, you want a very clear title. How about "Ancient Battles in Miniatures"

Art of war sounds, to someone who is not a gamer, like a collection of war art or a precis of sun tsu. You want the guy who might want to play with toy soldiers to pull it out and look at the cover.

Most established ancients gamers are almost assured sales for these rules. The hope for the big sales here are the kids looking through the osprey rack at barnes and noble, coming upon the ideas of ancients gaming for the first time.
spartan
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Post by spartan »

How about something that ties in with the Osprey series?
Can't think of one that uses Osprey, but the Elite title might be useable.

Men at Arms 2000 BC-1500 AD might work.

The short titles tend to sound better, those like Sword and Spear as suggested previously have a nice ring them.
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Post by Redpossum »

spartan wrote:How about something that ties in with the Osprey series?
Can't think of one that uses Osprey, but the Elite title might be useable.

Men at Arms 2000 BC-1500 AD might work.

The short titles tend to sound better, those like Sword and Spear as suggested previously have a nice ring them.
Yeah, Sword & Spear was my suggestion...or maybe Sword & Beer! ;)
bryan
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Post by bryan »

I think the title can go two ways. And this is just off the top of my head. I'm sure the design team has thought this through already. So beware of rambling ahead. :)

The title could be very descriptive like all Osprey books. This makes sense for Osprey titles since they are meant to be informative on their subjects. This type of title is more palatable to the wargaming crowd but I'm not sure if the unknowing public will find "Rules for Ancient Wargames" any more helpful a title than "Art of War" in knowing what the book is about. Do they even know what a wargame is? What "ancients" refers to?
Also this kind of title is used for dry material like textbooks and technical manuals.

The second option is a more evocative title. Like "Warhammer" or "Flames of War" it inspires a sense of the excitement of what the game is trying to create.

I think some of the suggestions so far would be fine if the market was simply the existing ancients and wargaming crowd. Ancients is popular and the layout and such planned will go a long way to getting these rules played a lot in the wargaming community. But THE title has to grab out and make statement that this is THE game to play to grab non-historicals players. Waht about non-wargamers in the bookstore assuming Osprey will get it there? are they a market that is attainable? Will the spine on the shelf at Chapters lure them in? Who will be looking at the spines on the Osprey rack at chapters? What will grab them and make them decide that playing a game based on their interest in history is a good idea.
Part of it is what makes up the rest of the package. Full colour illustrations and beautiful diagrams will go along way. Easy to read examples of gameplay as well. Don't forget other marketing. Will there be any or is the spine on the shelf all the consumer will know? In a print ad "flames of War" is much sexier then " Rules for Wargaming", but on the spine "Flames of War" is not necessarily going to draw interest necessarily.
I started wargaming by accident. A friend's dad had some 54mm pre-painted Napolenics on his bookshelf. I asked about them and he told me you could get them unpainted too. I thought, what fun to paint those since I'm interested in history. Only months later, and a few bad paint jobs, did I learn that people played with them and I was very keen to see it in action. Anyway , I digress, but my point is that playing with toys based on history is the draw here. The title should reflect that, imho.
It could do that with a byline that is emphasized on the spine and cover, "Rules for Battle in Miniature" with the main title something sexier. two birds, one stone.

Anyway, I'm losing my train of thought and it's late but I'd be curious to hear some of the expectations for the title from the designers.
malekithau
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Post by malekithau »

How about something that indicates the timespan as well as references the weapons -

"Chariot to Knight - Miniature battles from antiquity to the middles ages" or something similar. :oops:

As "Art of War" is already taken a rethink of the names is definitely warranted even if just to calm any stormy waters. Previous poster talking about Flames of War and Warhammer as catchy is exactly right. A catchy title is a must.

As soon as the rules are ready I will be in the ear (literally) of the owner of the largest hobby store in Australia to make sure they are carried here.

John O
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Post by riddcowler »

If you favour the armour approach then perhaps 'From Flesh to Plate' might sum up the time period neatly and (for all us harrassed spouses :( ) also help disguise from 'She, who must be obeyed!' what we have actually spent out on! Those who prefer offence to defence might opt for 'From Club to Pole-Axe' but care should be taken regarding a possible copyright conflict with the biography of a certain celeb entitled 'From Club to Pole-Dance' :).
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