Difficult forward move

[Jilu]

Ok decided to re-read rules this morning and realy realy this diffiult forward move thing should be renamed, and rephrased.
Even after playing for 1 year now i had to think hard to catch the meaning of it.
And i during the last tournaments i saw that most pepole forget that not doing a full move is a DFM.

[philqw78]

I could not agree more. Difficult moves is a terrible way to put a simple premise

[hammy]

It is indeed a less than brilliant way to put things but amazingly enough there was actually a lot of discussion on how this should be worded during the development of the rules.

Suggestions on a postcard to:

I have a better way to word the 'difficult' forward move rule
Slitherine Towers
England

[Strategos69]

My suggestion: "halting troops"

[lawrenceg]

It is indeed a less than brilliant way to put things but amazingly enough there was actually a lot of discussion on how this should be worded during the development of the rules.

Suggestions on a postcard to:

I have a better way to word the 'difficult' forward move rule
Slitherine Towers
England

Move forward with up to 1 wheel with a general or more than 6 MU from enemy; or a full move without wheeling. Simple for all.

Any other forward move with up to 1 wheel. Complex for other undrilled.




An alternative would be to allow other undrilled to single wheel and move short without a general within 6 MU of enemy as a simple move.

[Polkovnik]

And i during the last tournaments i saw that most pepole forget that not doing a full move is a DFM.

Short moves only require a CMT for undrilled within 6MU of enemy (and not with a general). And I've not found that this is something people forget.
But I agree the naming and wording of difficult and simple moves is something that could be improved.

[philqw78]

I suggest dropping them completely. Let undrilled move short and do a single wheel.

[nikgaukroger]

Would certainly help Undrilled foot be more popular.

[lawrenceg]

Would certainly help Undrilled foot be more popular.

With other moves afoot to constrain drilled troops, it may be necessary (and IMO not unreasonable) to make any wheel a complex move for undrilled other, even with a general and outside 6 MU, in order to maintain enough difference between drilled and undrilled. Wheeling on a wide frontage while maintaining dressed ranks is quite a difficult thing to do.

Short moves probably should be simple - one trumpet blast for "go", two blasts for "stop".

[Polkovnik]

Short moves probably should be simple - one trumpet blast for "go", two blasts for "stop".

Yes, it does seem rather silly that undrilled foot can only move in certain increments without a CMT. They can move full for one turn then stop, but can't stop at any other point.

[Strategos69]

Short moves probably should be simple - one trumpet blast for "go", two blasts for "stop".

Yes, it does seem rather silly that undrilled foot can only move in certain increments without a CMT. They can move full for one turn then stop, but can't stop at any other point.

The problem here is that in FoG there are not more adverse effects of failing a CMT than not being able to perform the manouver. If you are marching (and marching in formation requires training: it is not easy to form ranks) and then suddenly you order your troops to stop, taking into account that it is likely that some minor shooting is taking effect, there are sounds everywhere, it might happen that when the unit stops it does not do it evenly, gaps appear, troops get confused, etc. I think the idea is good. The problem is the absence of effects regarding the fact of failing CMT other than doing another manouver.

And that rises one rules question. If you ordered your troops to stop in front of your enemy let's say that 1 MU away from them and you fail your test and your full movement would get you in touch with them, then do you move at all? Did the officers ordered to move and then changed their mind?

[david53]

Would certainly help Undrilled foot be more popular.

With other moves afoot to constrain drilled troops, it may be necessary (and IMO not unreasonable) to make any wheel a complex move for undrilled other, even with a general and outside 6 MU, in order to maintain enough difference between drilled and undrilled. Wheeling on a wide frontage while maintaining dressed ranks is quite a difficult thing to do.

Short moves probably should be simple - one trumpet blast for "go", two blasts for "stop".

I agree any change in drilled will require a change for the undrilled or as you say there will be a narrowing of the differences between both troop types.

But to not lean the changes too much against the undrilled will require some hard work to allow them to be seen more on the battlefield.

As stated I can't see why short moves for undrilled could not be classed as a simple move most people as you say can understand go or stop, might be harder for Cavalry.(just think you have an animal to control, might be wrong mind)

I like the idea of making a wheel inside 6MU complex for undrilled others even with the general it would'nt take much to change. They would of course be able to get the + for having general with them/or close by. I'm also sure it would'nt be too hard to plan in front to get your General were you require him to be.

I do think this is an important idea and would like to see it discussed more.

Dave

[spikemesq]

You could split moves into Tactical Moves and March Moves . . . .

. . . dives for cover.

[Polkovnik]

I like the idea of making a wheel inside 6MU complex for undrilled others even with the general it would'nt take much to change.

I like the current situation regarding undrilled troops wheeling. At least if your flank is threatened you can put a general with them and guarantee being able to wheel, which normally stops the flank charge. Use of generals is one of the key challenges in FOG, and this is one part of that.

[hammy]

It is indeed a less than brilliant way to put things but amazingly enough there was actually a lot of discussion on how this should be worded during the development of the rules.

Suggestions on a postcard to:

I have a better way to word the 'difficult' forward move rule
Slitherine Towers
England

Move forward with up to 1 wheel with a general or more than 6 MU from enemy; or a full move without wheeling. Simple for all.

Any other forward move with up to 1 wheel. Complex for other undrilled.

An alternative would be to allow other undrilled to single wheel and move short without a general within 6 MU of enemy as a simple move.

Now word it to fit on the Quick reference sheet.

[hammy]

I like the idea of making a wheel inside 6MU complex for undrilled others even with the general it would'nt take much to change.

I like the current situation regarding undrilled troops wheeling. At least if your flank is threatened you can put a general with them and guarantee being able to wheel, which normally stops the flank charge. Use of generals is one of the key challenges in FOG, and this is one part of that.

Indeed, if undrilled troops had to pass a CMT to wheel even with a commander then to be honest nobody would use other undrilled as they would be totally pants.

[lawrenceg]

I like the idea of making a wheel inside 6MU complex for undrilled others even with the general it would'nt take much to change.

I like the current situation regarding undrilled troops wheeling. At least if your flank is threatened you can put a general with them and guarantee being able to wheel, which normally stops the flank charge. Use of generals is one of the key challenges in FOG, and this is one part of that.

Indeed, if undrilled troops had to pass a CMT to wheel even with a commander then to be honest nobody would use other undrilled as they would be totally pants.

No change there then.


Forward move with one wheel and no commander: complex for other undrilled.
Any other forward move with up to 1 wheel: simple for all.

That ought to fit.

[hammy]

Forward move with one wheel and no commander: complex for other undrilled.
Any other forward move with up to 1 wheel: simple for all.

That ought to fit.

But it is a change to the rules as it allows short moves which the current rules don't.

[lawrenceg]

Forward move with one wheel and no commander: complex for other undrilled.
Any other forward move with up to 1 wheel: simple for all.

That ought to fit.

But it is a change to the rules as it allows short moves which the current rules don't.

Yes, I was suggesting that v2.0 could change the rules from something players tend to get wrong to something they are more likely to get right.

Another possibility would be to make space on p42 by combining the two table rows for "charge" into a single one ("Any charge"). Then you might be abe to fit in an expanded description of a difficult forward move in the table.

Another possibility is to remove the "including no more than one wheel" from the movement table and put it in the "Advances" section of the text. Then you could combine the sections on "Advance" and "Difficult Forward Move" to give:

An Advance is a forward move including no more than one wheel. An advance is an "Easy advance" if (a)... or (b).... or (c) it is straight ahead the full available move distance. Otherwise it is termed a "Difficult advance"

Then the table rows become Easy advance and Difficult advance.

This also changes the way the definition of "Advance" is presented, which may lead to less confusion than at present. (Numerous rule questions get asked on here, for which the answer includes a reminder of the definition of an advance, so people are obviously not getting it with the current wording.)

[hammy]

I think that space could be gained on the QRS by merging the charge lines and fixing the difficult move might be possible with another line.

The problems are that complex and difficult are considered the same by a lot of people and they aren't.

Advances or at least the term "Advance" needs to be used more carefully.