Cohesion state bug

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:16 am

I recently had a game where I had 4 dismounted knights all adjacent all fighting. One of them was fragged the others were either disrupted or I thought they were steady. The fragged knight lost a combat in my turn and broke, the adjacent unit broke, the first unit routed then the next 2 units in line both broke, and I am sure they were not fragged.

Had a situation in a different game where I rear charged a steady unit, it went fragged on impact but did not break after the combat. The next unit broke it.

Had a light horse charge an opposing light horse, it evaded I followed and caught it in the rear, then my unit just stood there. It did not drop cohesion for a being caught in the rear and I had to click on my unit to start the combat.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:24 am

Heres part of the Cohesion chart that shows some of the bad things that can happen when hit hard

"Results of a cohesion test
Final Score Outcome
greater than 7 No change.
3 to 7 A battle group will drop one cohesion level.
less than 3 A battle group will drop two cohesion levels if testing for friends routing, the loss of a general or a major defeat in close combat otherwise one level. "

So you can have a unit drop 2 levels from an impact or melee, if it routs it can cause a neighbor to drop two levels as well...

The last one sounds lik a bug....

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:40 am

Don't you just love such difinitive descriptions like : major defeat!

I've had major defeats when I gave no % casualties and took 2!!!! Or so it seems!!

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:42 am

BGs also keep rolls. So, combat one happens and you roll or end with 7. Cool. You pass. But if you get hit again or fight again and there is some other mod tossed in, you can go down. I think.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:30 am

Blathergut wrote:Don't you just love such difinitive descriptions like : major defeat!

I've had major defeats when I gave no % casualties and took 2!!!! Or so it seems!!

I believe a "major defeat" is defined as 2 or more hits than you gave.

Chris

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:51 pm

batesmotel wrote:
Blathergut wrote:Don't you just love such difinitive descriptions like : major defeat!

I've had major defeats when I gave no % casualties and took 2!!!! Or so it seems!!
I believe a "major defeat" is defined as 2 or more hits than you gave.

Chris

Yeah, its not too hard to get "major defeats" even with fresh troops, I have had several horrible starts when a superior legion impacts an average pike and is fragged... Not a good way to start the assault on the enemies main battle line , doh

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:39 pm

batesmotel wrote:
Blathergut wrote:Don't you just love such difinitive descriptions like : major defeat!

I've had major defeats when I gave no % casualties and took 2!!!! Or so it seems!!
I believe a "major defeat" is defined as 2 or more hits than you gave.

Chris

Where abouts is this in HELP? I thought it might be tied to the percentage loss!

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:40 pm

Search the index under Cohesion, it is tucked into that chart somewhere I believe (you gotta earn it though by reading the whole page

)

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:55 pm

I read "cohesion" and "cohesion states." I must be blind!

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:59 pm

Blathergut wrote:I read "cohesion" and "cohesion states." I must be blind!

Hmm you might be right, it tells you what happens when you lose 'Bad" but I believe the definition of bad is likly is somehere else... it is a mystery!

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:12 pm

Blathergut wrote:
batesmotel wrote:
Blathergut wrote:Don't you just love such difinitive descriptions like : major defeat!

I've had major defeats when I gave no % casualties and took 2!!!! Or so it seems!!
I believe a "major defeat" is defined as 2 or more hits than you gave.

Chris
Where abouts is this in HELP? I thought it might be tied to the percentage loss!

I'm inferring it from the TT rules and from watching the system display of results. May well be missing from help.

Chris

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:30 pm

Ok so I see what you are saying but 2 of my units suddenly break after the the broken guy moves, here is the set up

All adjacent to each other engaged in melee with enemies

Fragged unit that broke.

Disrupted unit who broke after the fragged unit.

2 units that were either steady or disrupted that broke only after

finished his rout move.
They both broke at the same time, this all occured off of one combat by

no one else had not fought yet. After

breaks

broke, then

makes a rout move and then suddenly

both break for no reason.
I have seen another example of this delayed break in an opponents turn in a game turn I just played today. Not sure how that would count as I had a serious loss since it appears that they only broke after noticing

running away a few hexes to their rear.

Morbio · Post by **Morbio** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:38 pm

So long as it isn't a common occurrence I don't have a problem with it.

I can imagine that a real-life situation may occur where one unit routs after a particularly bloody battle and those that see this rout too, if more than a couple of units rout then the more likely (IMO) that rout-fever will spread and a chain rout ensues.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:47 pm

You can go down 2 levels for seeing friends break. I don't see how a BG that was steady could rout. Unless what happened was:

broke

disrupted unit broke upon seeing

break (it went down two levels)

The others...tested for at least two breaks...one maybe even for 3 breaks...so they might have passed one or dropped one level but then another or two.

Make any sense?

It just becomes difficult to see/follow on screen. It would have all been in the verbose summary.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:34 pm

Blathergut wrote:You can go down 2 levels for seeing friends break. I don't see how a BG that was steady could rout. Unless what happened was:

broke

disrupted unit broke upon seeing break (it went down two levels)

The others...tested for at least two breaks...one maybe even for 3 breaks...so they might have passed one or dropped one level but then another or two.

Make any sense?

It just becomes difficult to see/follow on screen. It would have all been in the verbose summary.

This can happen if the sequence is correct... Ask Iversonjm

, he broke (routed) 18 bp's of my troops from ONE combat

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:27 am

Bet that was fun!

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:28 pm

Blathergut wrote:Bet that was fun!

It was quite a jaw dropping experiance

iversonjm · Post by **iversonjm** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:29 pm

Blathergut wrote:Bet that was fun!

It was! From my perspective...

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:36 pm

I had an entire flank of ancient Spanish go once. They were about three deep...the first one up front broke...ahem...

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:33 pm

I just find it odd that they broke only after the inital router had moved, why would they not have broken following

break? Why do it after

has moved, and going back to the virtual die rolls, that was rotten luck or a single die roll that looped for every unit that was similar or something like that.