AAR – PanzerGeneral vs Supermax - war is over

[pickle]

With the destruction of his DD in the Black Sea, an amphibious assault on the Romanian or even Bulgarian coast might be a way to disrupt things. It looks like those coastal cities are empty. You could then rail a garrison in to Sevastapol or Kerch (depending on where you took it) to replace the one used. Would be poetic justice of a sort after the storming of Sevastapol on the first turn.

[pickle]

P.S...many of those Luftwaffe units look ripe for the picking especially given the strength of the Red Air Force relatively speaking. Some strategic strikes of fighters followed by tac bombers once any CAP is finished could put an end to many of them or at least cripple them for sometime to come.

[PanzerGeneral]

P.S...many of those Luftwaffe units look ripe for the picking especially given the strength of the Red Air Force relatively speaking. Some strategic strikes of fighters followed by tac bombers once any CAP is finished could put an end to many of them or at least cripple them for sometime to come.

It is tempting, but my tacs need to be concentrated on facilitating the destruction of ground troops. Killing Luftwaffe units is just an added bonus at this stage in the war for me. I am more than happy just to cripple them as it means Supermax has to choose between repairing them or letting them be destroyed before buying new fighters. The result is the same he spends loads of PPs in keeping his Luftwaffe alive.

[PanzerGeneral]

14. September 1944, AG Centre continues its withdrawal
The weather.


The Russian scientists improve lots of techs before the autumn and winter offensives.


The Red Army has surrounded Benghazi. It will probably fall next turn.


My plan off sending some infantry to the Atlantic has failed. Supermax had already planned ahead a welcoming party took some pot shots at my transport. I send it back to the Red Sea and it will help in the defence of the African coast.


AG Centre flees Riga and withdraws to form a solid defensive line consisting of lots of panzers. I recon this is THE defensive line of Supermax where he will fight me to the bitter end. The Red Army advances cautiously and liberates Riga and Vilnius. I spot that a transport has sailed from Riga. I send in my sub and gamble that it has travelled to Konigsberg. The gamble pays off and my sub attacks the transport in port.


AG South has completed its defensive line behind the Dniester. The Red Army advances slowly. Near Odessa I attack and kill an axis allied unit. A new fighter is deployed near Kiev.


All PPs this turn is used on repairs of the Red Air Force and some upgrades as well. The Red Air Force is ready to continue the fight.

[PanzerGeneral]

PG,

Here's a conversation we've been having in Max's AAR so I thought I'd post it here for you and other folks following your AAR to be aware of and comment on if they so wish.

I will confer with Pangen and we will decide.

I recon that a lot of changes were implemented following this game as it was not a conventional game , at least it is good in that sense.

Max, below is a list of changes and fixes that are the direct result of this game. This game has been invaluable for the improvement of the GS expansion and thanks to you and PG for posting it in your AAR's.

1-1-2010

11. Canadian weather. Changed the code so Canada (including UK controlled part of Canada) plus Greenland and Iceland are now part of the north weather zone.
12. Convoy bug regarding Halifax. Rewrote the convoy code so New York port will be set as a destination if Halifax becomes Axis controlled.
13. Convoys when UK surrenders. Changed the code so the convoys will become US and go to New York when UK surrenders (Ottawa falls).
14. US DoW upon Germany when an Axis unit controls a hex in Canada (including UK controlled part of Canada). Added this code as well because we felt it's an omission to not think about what would happen if Germany landed in Canada. Now USA will automatically join the Allies by DoW'ing Germany if the Axis are so bold to land units in Canada.
15. Fredericton garrison. Added the Fredericton garrison to all scenarios. The reason was that Canada is neutral until some time in 1941 and that means the Germans can DoW Canada and land directly into Fredericton and get supply without the Allied player being able to stop it. The allies can't move units to Fredericton after England falls because the territory is neutral. So by adding a garrison here it means the Germans must fight for a supply source.

3-11-2010

44. Made a change so that USA will get 100% war effort + tech bonus as long as the Axis player controls a hex in Canada or USA. This simulates the emergency situation USA would be in if the Axis would land at the US doorstep. It simulates that production intended for the west is sent to the east instead. This change should make it even less likely that the Axis will land in Canada or USA.

4-12-2010
63. Fixed a bug about USA activating when Axis units were in Canada if USA had surrendered. This message won't show now and the Russians won’t get an extra set of Siberian reserves.
64. Fixed a bug when UK had surrendered where the southern lend lease route to USSR would shut down. The bug sent the PP's to USA instead. Now USSR will receive the lend lease from Persia regardless.

4-17-2010
72. Fixed a bug that caused the game to hang when partisans trying to spawn in countries tied to a major faction (i.e., Britain/USA/France, Russia or Germany/Italy) when all countries of that faction have been defeated. For example, in the unlikely case that Britain, USA and France are all defeated partisans that spawn in these countries, or minor countries tied to this faction, will spawn as Russian partisans. Similarly, if Russia is defeated then traditional Russian partisans will spawn in the British/USA/French faction.

It sounds very tempting. I will ask Max if we should apply the patch.

[PanzerGeneral]

4. October 1944, All quiet
The weather.


The Russian scientists produce more results.


The Red Army almost manages to capture Benghazi. The Wehrmacht panzer grenadier survives with only 1 step left.


All quiet in the central sector.


All quiet in the southern sector.


All PPs are used on upgrades for the Red Air Force and the tank armies. The last PPs are used to upgrade a couple of infantry armies.

[trulster]

Supermax seems very weak at the river north of Odessa, Axis minors will be easily crushed. Might be a good idea to vector a tank and some offensive power there, when winter strikes the river counts for little and that German MECH will be easily overcome from a 3 hex attack, then should be possible to exploit vs the Axis minors. In winter weather his panzers cant reach down for a counterstrike as well.

[schwerpunkt]

Supermax seems very weak at the river north of Odessa, Axis minors will be easily crushed. Might be a good idea to vector a tank and some offensive power there, when winter strikes the river counts for little and that German MECH will be easily overcome from a 3 hex attack, then should be possible to exploit vs the Axis minors. In winter weather his panzers cant reach down for a counterstrike as well.

I agree. Get plenty of FTRs and TACs down there too in order to bomb neighbouring units and reduce their ability to counterattack or to fill a breach.

[PanzerGeneral]

24. October 1944, Prelude to the winter offensive
The autumn weather is still nice.


After both me and Supermax have played a turn with the GS 1.05. The US surrender message and the Siberian reserves have stopped coming. The lend lease route to Russia has been enabled again and the Russian PPs production is at a whopping 235. This means of course that I will stop helping myself from the Siberian reserve as compensation when I lost my lend lease PPs income.


Benghazi has been abandoned by the Wehrmacht, the Red Army captures this Libyan port. The rest of the Red Army in North Africa is upgraded.


All quiet in the central sector. Most of the Red Army is upgraded. Two TACs are redeployed to the southern sector in order.


In southern sector most of the Red Army is upgraded. The tank armies and most of the Red Air Force is upgraded. So I want to warm up before the upcoming battles. The Red Air Force targets a weak TAC and STR and destroys them both whilst damaging more Luftwaffe fighters. My TACs concentrate their attack on the panzer korps which is commanded by Manstein. The panzer korps is disrupted and is easily destroyed by my tank army and Manstein is out of the war (he is out for the next 12 turns). Even with a river penalty my odds are at 14:1. An easy victory, but will my tank army survive? I move in order to minimize the odds of losing my brave tank armies. I recon next turn should bring some lousy autumn weather and Supermax will not attack me. A Hungarian korps north of Odessa receives the fury of the Red Air Force and Red Army infantry but manages to survive.

My STR attacks Ploesti and halves the oil production there.


90% of my PPs this turn are spent on upgrading the rest of the Red Army. The rest is used to repair damaged fighters. Now 98% of the Red Army has the latest and greatest equipment and is ready for battle.

The Red Army is at almost equal tech terms with the Wehrmacht.

[PanzerGeneral]

Supermax seems very weak at the river north of Odessa, Axis minors will be easily crushed. Might be a good idea to vector a tank and some offensive power there, when winter strikes the river counts for little and that German MECH will be easily overcome from a 3 hex attack, then should be possible to exploit vs the Axis minors. In winter weather his panzers cant reach down for a counterstrike as well.

I agree. Get plenty of FTRs and TACs down there too in order to bomb neighbouring units and reduce their ability to counterattack or to fill a breach.

These are valid points you both have. I will chip away at the axis minors north of Odessa and see what will happen.

[joerock22]

Nice move taking out that tank. You could do the same with his two tanks on the front line on the north. You would have to move your tanks into position soon because winter will restrict your movements.

[ftgcritt2]

So could somebody explain to me why we want to enable the southern lend lease after the surrender of the USA? Where are the PP's supposed to be coming from?

[trulster]

Martians? Agree, it doesn't make sense that if the US got conquered, they will be shipping LL to Russia. Even assuming the US is still fighting somewhere in Kansas it is a huge stretch to assume they have PPs to spare at this point.

[afk_nero]

I agree - at this point - the Germans have conquered most of the world and are at a deficit to the Russians in PP - in speaking about possibilities - I think that the Russian Reserve should never have been used as the Japanese may have been a factor in the east.

To my mind if USA gets conquered then Persian PP's should no longer be available and if the Russian reserve hasnt yet been used then this should stay in the east to counter the Japanese threat, as America will be in serious trouble.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

There is no southern lend-lease after the surrender of UK and USA. Russia is getting the PP's from controlling Persia, Iraq and Egypt. While UK or USA were in the game then they got these PP's and send 15 PP's in lend lease via the southern route. Now the Russians are getting the PP and it's bigger than the lend lease they used to get.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

You also have to take into consideration that USA would never have fallen in the real war if the Germans had landed in eastern USA. Most of USA is off-map and the Americans would produce lots of units to kick the Germans back to sea. The only reason Panzergeneral lost USA was because he ran out of space to place new units. The US coast line is very narrow on the map. In the real war new units could be placed in cities outside the map and rushed towards the coast to engage the Germans.

Another reason why USA fell is that this game is played mainly with v1.02 and that meant the convoys stopped once UK was conquered. In v1.05 the convoys will go to USA instead. That means the Americans can build up faster. We've also coded so the US production will immediately get to 100% war effort if below once Axis units land in Canada. USA will be activated as well. In this game Supermax could first pick Canada and then march up to the US border to blitz USA before they could activate by themselves. So USA lost Boston and Portland quickly and eventually New York and Washington because the coast line there was so narrow. What happened in this game will be VERY hard indeed to recreate in v1.05 so I think Supermax will be the only player who can claim to have captured USA in GS. The only other "player" you can do this with iin v1.05 s the AI.

So I suggest you don't use too much effort analyzing what happened in this game with USA. It's a one off and the GS rules have changed because of what we experienced in this game. It doesn't make Supermax'es achievement less formidable. I think he would have won this game in v1.05 as well. Instead of an invasion of America we would have seen a strong Barbarossa and not a Russia moving into Poland in 1944. I think Supermax invaded Canada because he got a golden chance to try it out. He would never have done that under the v1.05 rules.

[PanzerGeneral]

13. November 1944, Unexpected nice weather in November, the Red Army launches its autumn offensive
Wow, the computer weather gods treat the Russians nicely. The weather is fair for Eastern Europe and luckily this where most the axis forces are


The Russian scientists improve an infantry tech.


The island of Cyprus has been liberated by the glorious Red Army. The Red Army in North Africa pause for upgrades and repairs.


With the nice weather the central sector launches its autumn attacks. The attacks will occur where there are no river defence but lots of panzers. The Red Air Force decimates the panzers before my tank armies roll in and annihilate 1 ARM and 2 MECHs. In the process several Luftwaffe fighters get badly mauled.


In the south sector the offensive is more modest but a MECH is destroyed and a Wehrmacht korps is routed. My fighters in this sector attack and destroy 3 decimated Luftwaffe fighters!
Ploiesti is bombed and the oil production here is fully disrupted.


I spend most of my PPs on unit repairs and a couple of unit upgrades.

[gerones]

Fortunately for supermax, war ends in 1945...

[PanzerGeneral]

Fortunately for supermax, war ends in 1945...

I know. It will be interesting to see how close to Berlin can get before the war ends.

[PanzerGeneral]

3. December 1944, The autumn offensive continues
Winter has arrived in Russia and Europe.


The Red Army in North Africa pauses for more repairs.


In the central sector the offensive continues and with the help if the Red Air Force four axis infantry units are destroyed. The Luftwaffe has fled and my planes meet no opposition.


In the southern sector two more axis units perish in heavy attacks. The Red Air Force brings death and destruction to the axis troops. North of Odessa a panzer grenadier korps is destroyed by brave infantry attacks.
Ploiesti is still bombed in order to keep the oil production fully disrupted.


I spend my PPs on unit repairs and many fighters. The fighters will be ready to meet the Luftwaffe.