Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

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MarcoT.
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Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by MarcoT. »

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Before we begin today, we wanted to just take a quick moment to once thank our incredible community for their overwhelming feedback generated from our Elite – Ghost Division announcement.

Facing the bombardment of hundreds upon hundreds of points of engagement across our various feeds is quite the humbling experience for us; it truly is amazing to really see that so many people have such passion for Panzer Corps. It’s an honor to read so many of your insights, ideas, and yes even criticisms, because it totally demonstrates how much our community really cares. So once again, our deepest thanks to all of our community, we’re absolutely going to continue to do our best to provide you the best Panzer Corps gameplay content we can make.

Now then, on to the Developer Diary!

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Welcome to the Elite – Ghost Division Developer Diary and DLC preview.

As Ghost Division swiftly moves towards its May launch date, we wanted to do a little bit of a deeper dive into the upcoming content. We’ve got a whole bunch of cool stuff to showcase, from scenario analysis to revealing our internal thought processes, so let’s begin!

Something New, Something Familiar
One of the biggest internal objectives we have with these Elite campaigns is to bring back more focus on the classic Panzer Corps combat gameplay, while mostly regulating some of the more whacky and wild elements to optional aspects of the campaign.

The best way to explain this will be to look at some of the scenario design within Ghost Division, so let’s take a look at a couple of maps and see what that’s all about.

The first scenario will actually take place in Poland before the formation of the 7th Panzer Division with its predecessor unit that was known as the 2nd Light Division.

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As you can see from that screenshot, Ghost Division is immediately starting on healthy sized maps with significant turn limits, so players can anticipate plenty of action through every step of this campaign.

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From your starting positions, objectives are spread out before you in many directions, offering the player ample choice on where to focus their forces as the battle unfolds. And since someone is going to inevitably ask about it, we can talk about the various types of objectives because their design philosophy is important for allowing players the option to disable the turn limit, should you so choose.

Victory Objectives are the conditions that directly control your campaign progression:

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These are objectives that must be met and they also instant award scenario victory upon completion, so if you’re hunting for bonuses, make sure to save the Victory Objective for last! These objectives are marked with solid outlines around such hexes.

Prestige Objectives are your primary source of prestige resource income, and they are marked with dotted outlines.

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In the past, players have frequently struggled with predetermined prestige settings. Some players will find themselves starving of prestige that effectively ends their ability to repair their forces and continue to wage an effective campaign, while others find themselves so flush with prestige that they basically have unlimited resources at their disposal. By removing almost all predetermined prestige settings and instead populating each scenario with an abundance of bonus Prestige Objectives, we’re hoping to increase player agency in terms of economic management. If you’re starving for prestige, there are very specific tasks you can aim for that will provide huge prestige rewards, while players who feel they have enough prestige can instead bypass some of these objectives to give themselves extra time to tackle Special Objectives.

Special objectives are where we’ve put in some of the more complex and advanced DLC mechanics, and also really ratcheted up the difficulty.

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These optional tasks will definitely test your mettle to complete, and they will always offer some pretty fantastic rewards, such as access to unpurchaseable equipment or perhaps a chance to custom pick a new hero’s abilities.

That’s just the beginning of your campaign, and as it progresses, you will find even larger maps with more options on how to approach them laid out before you.

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Historical Context
Something else we’d like to aim for in the Elite campaigns is to keep the all important focus on history omnipresent without steering too far into heavy narrative or character-centric elements. While some players absolutely adore deep diving into the kind of writing that frequently colored the Axis Operations series, especially the alternate history branch, we definitely recognize that not everyone was a fan of seeing some briefing dialogue-only scenarios.

Instead, Elite campaigns are going to strive for maximum gameplay with minimum friction to get right into historical Panzer combat. The whole concept of this particular campaign design is to showcase the real history of some of the most elite and legendary divisions that fought during World War II, and we want their heroic exploits to really speak for themselves.

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Ideally, we’re going to spotlight every major nation of World War II with this treatment, but of course that is highly contingent on producing campaigns our players really want to engage with, so we’re not going to get ahead of ourselves too quickly on talking about distant plans here.

The Art of Ghost Division
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You have probably noticed some of the awesome imagery we’ve been embedding throughout the various Ghost Division articles, and we wanted to make special mention of them real quick. They’ve all been drawn by the artist Adrián Rodríguez, and we’re super stoked to have them to enhance the characters and events that populate the Elite – Ghost Division campaign!

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Because generative AI artwork is such a hot topic though, we thought we’d better briefly talk about it. While generative AI artwork is an incredible technology that is improving by leaps and bounds at an unbelievable rate, we just didn’t feel comfortable utilizing it for any aspect of Panzer Corps 2, past or present. All of our artwork is human made, and all of our writing is human written. One single person wrote all of the base game briefings, and that same person wrote the entire Axis Operations saga without any AI aid. I know this, because that person is me, Kerensky!

So again, while generative AI is pretty amazing stuff, it’s our official position that it won’t ever be utilized in the creation of official Panzer Corps 2 assets, files, or materials.

Now that said, there is no such restriction placed upon the custom modding scene, so if any aspiring modder out there is wondering, you are fully allowed to create mods of Panzer Corps 2 that invoke things such as AI generated briefing VO. In potential anticipation of that, in part of the Panzer Corps 2 update that accompanies the launch of Ghost Division we’re investigation the possibility for custom player mod campaigns to enable their own sets of VO audio files.

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Conclusion
We hope you all enjoyed this sneak preview of the upcoming Elite – Ghost Division campaign. Get ready for its imminent release scheduled for May 29th, and then stay tuned for way more Panzer Corps 2 goodies to start rolling out right afterwards as we march towards July 11th Panzer Corps Day, marking our 14th year of working on the Panzer Corps franchise!
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by ColonelKurtz »

Fantastic! Can't wait for more and more campaigns!
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Grondel »

Did Slitherine change their policy or is Adrián Rodríguez an"AI-Artist"?

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sers,
Thomas
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by bebro »

Looks like good old Defender of the Crown was already done by Skynet:
DefCrown.jpg
DefCrown.jpg (202.03 KiB) Viewed 1362 times
The pic I tested is this one: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81YrqVvHl3L.png

Bottom line: the tool does not seem to be perfect in its judgements.
Grondel
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Grondel »

bebro wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 2:35 pm Bottom line: the tool does not seem to be perfect in its judgements.
The pic u posted is created by a game engine. Though i never met a game engine, i am pretty confident they are more like AI than a person.

Bottom line: tool is better than u are.

sers,
Thomas
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by bebro »

Defender of the Crown is from the age of 2d pixel art. The pics/anims may be displayed via whatever game engine they had back then, but someone had to create the actual artwork.
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Grondel »

bebro wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 3:22 pm Defender of the Crown is from the age of 2d pixel art. The pics/anims may be displayed via whatever game engine they had back then, but someone had to create the actual artwork.
I was not only alive when defender of the crown first came out on the c64, i was old and rich enough to own one and play it.
But that is still not the answer to my question.
Since it got bugged in this pile of dump dropped on it, i´ll repeat it a little bit longer.

- Each and evryone i ask about those pictures raises an eyebrow and goes "Those look suspiciously like AI".
- All the programms i can easily acces do the same.
- when u google "Adrián Rodríguez" + "AI Art" u get lots of hits where several, maybe diffrent "Adrián Rodríguez" (Seems to be a very common name combination), show of their AI art.

So back to my question.

Did Slitherin change their policy considering AI art or is each and evryone i ask about those pictures wrong?

I would prefer an answer from someone with noticable people skills.

sers,
Thomas
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Tassadar »

I think this image recognition page does very poorly with images that are taken from games overall if they are not modern 3D titles or old-school RTS like options.

Another example - screenshot from the Heroes of Might and Magic 3 intro below. It just does not recognize many things game-related well.
HoMM3.JPG
HoMM3.JPG (29.24 KiB) Viewed 1303 times
Also, wasn't Panzer Corps 2 art always alike that? Relatively simple, with a feel as if someone used a filter over old photos?
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Panzer73 »

I'm looking forward to the Ghost Division!
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Grondel »

Tassadar wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 5:07 pm Also, wasn't Panzer Corps 2 art always alike that? Relatively simple, with a feel as if someone used a filter over old photos?
Compare them to the ones from the base campaign or AO series. look diffrently to my eye.
Can´t talk about anything bulge and later since i don´t own them.


sers,
Thomas
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Patrick Ward »

Grondel wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 6:26 pm But that is still not the answer to my question.
Since it got bugged in this pile of dump dropped on it, i´ll repeat it a little bit longer.

- Each and evryone i ask about those pictures raises an eyebrow and goes "Those look suspiciously like AI".
- All the programms i can easily acces do the same.
- when u google "Adrián Rodríguez" + "AI Art" u get lots of hits where several, maybe diffrent "Adrián Rodríguez" (Seems to be a very common name combination), show of their AI art.

Did Slitherin change their policy considering AI art or is each and evryone i ask about those pictures wrong?

I would prefer an answer from someone with noticable people skills.
Tassadar wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 5:07 pm Also, wasn't Panzer Corps 2 art always alike that? Relatively simple, with a feel as if someone used a filter over old photos?
Compare them to the ones from the base campaign or AO series. look diffrently to my eye.
Can´t talk about anything bulge and later since i don´t own them.


sers,
Thomas
I don't have the people skills you're demanding but you'll have to make do as these images are my responsibility and I'm the only person in the company positioned to talk about them with authority, and you've attacked one of my artists.


Except for the base campaign and the Cyrenaica DLC, Adrián Rodríguez-Pérez has created all of the illustrations used for briefings and scenario pages. The base campaign images were done by myself ( I can't remember the reasoning behind that but it was clearly a bad idea as I'm primarily a 3D artist ). The Cyrenaica images were done by the campaign devs themselves due to budgetary constraints.

As for your accusations that Adriáns images are AI generated. I've briefed, provided reference and art directed every one of his pieces over the last five years. I've witnessed and approved ( or not ) every stage from initial sketch through to final image. Yes these latest ones are subtly different to previous. Normally we go through multiple iterations of composition, lighting, personality, historical details etc., during which he has as much input as possible. This time we couldn't.

We had to turn these around very quickly due to an unexpected scheduling change so I prepared thumbnail collaged mockups of the compositions from historical photos to reduce the iteration. I also provided all the 3D models for the background tanks (ie. they're our game models ) which he rendered out from Blender and painted over since our game models are low res and the game textures not usable in this situation.
The blackout in Spain meant he couldn't fix a couple of images in time for our deadline so I had to do that ( I gave him reference for a Panzer IVG instead of the D - I know - rank amateur ) but they were still essentially all his work.

So because I set the compositions in stone he didn't have his normal degree of freedom and the result is a little less nuanced/layered than usual, but thats our fault not his.

Once I have the approved black and white illustrations from him, I'll crop, colourise and treat them in Photoshop to maintain the consistent Panzercorps style. ( eg. dependent on location or story beats a particular colour is overlaid , yellow added to a range of highlights, half tone pattern overlaid over a limited range of edited greys etc. etc. )

And that’s it.
Slitherines stance on AI has not changed.

I would ask that you do not attack the integrity of my artists again.


Pat - Senior Artist and Art Director of Panzercorps 2.
............................

Pat a Pixel Pusher

............................
Grondel
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Grondel »

Patrick Ward wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 4:47 pm I don't have the people skills you're demanding but you'll have to make do as these images are my responsibility and I'm the only person in the company positioned to talk about them with authority, and you've attacked one of my artists.
Thanks for anhonest answer and not some "that tool sucks BS". U are one of the Slitherine officials that has the needed professionality to answer heated questions without adding fuel to the fire.
Patrick Ward wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 4:47 pm I also provided all the 3D models for the background tanks (ie. they're our game models ) which he rendered out from Blender and painted over since our game models are low res and the game textures not usable in this situation.
MY guess is that this part of the process is what triggers the "possible AI" flag of the checker programms i used. I did not use only the one i posted the screens from, but i didn´t want to litter the forum with all of them.
And in the programms defense, they are not completely wrong in this. Depends on the deffinitions u set.
Patrick Ward wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 4:47 pm Slitherines stance on AI has not changed.
Thanks for the clear answer on this one.
Patrick Ward wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 4:47 pm I would ask that you do not attack the integrity of my artists again.
If i think someone is violating the word he gave i will always confront him about it.

Which is the main diffrence between me and the people i talked with about this. Most of them are seasoned PC2 players, most of them regularly read this forum, most of them stated "This is clearly AI" when asked about the new art.

Without me confronting u about it u wouldn´t have had the opportunity to set this right and explain urself.
That is all u can expect from me. If i think something fishi i will tell u and u can explain urself.

If u prefer ur customers silent u need to look elsewhere.

sers,
Thomas
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Edmon »

Grondel wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 1:47 pm Did Slitherine change their policy or is Adrián Rodríguez an"AI-Artist"?

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sers,
Thomas
A lot of Artists rely on their reputations to get work, and at the moment A.I. (Generative A.I. to be specific), is such a hot button issue that even the accusation of usage is enough to cause serious damage to an Artists reputation. Making this kind of accusation without concrete evidence is extremely serious.

Now, as you all know - our policy is that we do not use generative A.I., in any of our titles nor accept any work that uses it. We do use "A.I. tools" - in that games have A.I. players, Procedural map generation, Photoshop has "A.I." filters, etc, etc. Many of these things have been around for decades and technically are A.I. but are not the hot issue - which is generative A.I.

This tool that you've used to accuse our Artist is, frankly, a complete joke that seems to say every picture is A.I. generated. I tried all kinds of things and got it to tell me it was A.I.:

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This seems like an outrage website designed to mark literally anything that's even so much as brushed with a Photoshop Filter as "being A.I.". As it clearly identifies these obviously handcrafted key-arts from Hooded Horse as "A.I.".

Let me be absolutely clear - If you make another hostile accusation like this without any evidence and with the billigerance you've shown here, I will ban you from our community for manufacturing drama under the drama rules.

Now, lets stick to the topic which is the new content and move on.

You are more than welcome to DM me if you actually have some real evidence, and not a baseless and harmful accusation against one of our staff based on a tool that clearly is set to say everything is A.I.

Regards,
Edmon
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Bee1976 »

@Edmon your pictures are not shown (for me)

@Topic

I got mixed feelings about this DLC. Of course im looking forward to it. And of course i will buy it. I mean its PC2 Content. And its still a fuxxing great game!!

And it looks good, so no complaints in that direction.

But now the "but".

Im still hoping and waiting for a long campaign series. Maybe this one will somehow turn out to end in africa...would be great. But its the next german DLC, and im still hoping for AlliedCorps or SovietCorps or ofc AfrikaCorps.

I enjoyed all the DLCs so far, thats not my point. But they dont have much "replayability". And the basegame and AO series, well i played both for i dont now more than 2000 hrs.

So if there is no long new campaign series in them aking, i would love some minor changes to the base game, that sets some incentives to replay all of the stuff.

The dev diary says that there are goodies to come, and i would be happy (!) if you can add some challenges, oder elvers to some challenges or a new general trait, or some earnable awards.

i.e. a lever for "David vs Goliath" to raise the numbers would make me play the game for the next 500 hrs i bet :mrgreen:

Im aware that im only one person, but im pretty sure some players in the fanbase would appreciate some stuff that refreshes all the DLCs a little.

But i cant code, so im not sure if the things i ask fors are "big stuff" or easy to do. So my apologies if im asking for big and complicated stuff.

But i would really really really like somerefreshment of the "old game". Because i spent less and less time in this awesome game.
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Re: Elite - Ghost Division | Dev Diary

Post by Tassadar »

Bee1976 wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 4:13 pm Im still hoping and waiting for a long campaign series. Maybe this one will somehow turn out to end in africa...would be great. But its the next german DLC, and im still hoping for AlliedCorps or SovietCorps or ofc AfrikaCorps.

I enjoyed all the DLCs so far, thats not my point. But they dont have much "replayability". And the basegame and AO series, well i played both for i dont now more than 2000 hrs.

So if there is no long new campaign series in them aking, i would love some minor changes to the base game, that sets some incentives to replay all of the stuff.
I'm in the same boat. I'm optimistic about this small DLC. I've got a plan how to play it for flavor - traits, special self-imposed rules, all that jazz, but after 1,5 year since AO 1946 (wow, it's been that long?!) the game is begging for another longer, linked series to appeal to other strengths it has, which can only be utilized in this format. I was hoping War Stories would serve that role, essentially becoming the Allied equivalent of AO with a twist, but that does not seem to be the case. Of course, it does not have to be as long of a series as AO was, since its 9 parts were an absolute record, but at least a three part series for some other nation would be well received by the player base and surely refresh interest. I'm sure Slitherine is well aware of this fact, just after the whole thing with Pacific, they do not want to get anyone's hopes up, even if they are currently working on something and deemed that some disgruntled voices awaiting a long DLC will be better than going for hype that might not deliver.
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